Two Things Can Be True Part II: Black Women, Double Standards, and What Black Men Say About Donald Trump

In this episode of "Bruh! Speak Up," host Dr. Dametraus Jaggers shares his inspiring journey of self-discovery and highlights the importance of recognizing the unique experiences of black women within the context of ongoing race and gender issues in the U.S. He reflects on his personal encounters, critiques the double standards present in the current election cycle, and challenges the misconception that Vice President Kamala Harris poses a risk to black men. Jaggers poses a thought-provoking question: What has Donald Trump done to benefit black men? To delve deeper, we explore two impactful stories of black men influenced by Trump's "legacy." Drawing from his upbringing by a single black mother and his marriage to a black woman, Dr. Jaggers sheds light on how these experiences have shaped his understanding of black culture and love. 

Tune in for an engaging and insightful discussion!

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

What's going on everybody? Welcome to the very first episode of Bruh Speak Up. I am your host, demetrius Jaggers, aka Dr Jaggers, aka Jaggers, and so many other things that folks call me, who know me, who have been in my life for many years. I'm excited to welcome you all to this very first episode of this podcast. Breath Speak Up is a podcast for everyday people trying to find their voice among all the noise. It's a podcast for everyday people who are tired of being silent about the issues that matter to you, and so our journey together, for me, is about finding our collective voice and being able to find a way to get the courage to be vulnerable and to really share our voice about the things that matter. This podcast is about finding your voice, and I am convinced that one of the ways that we, one of the ways that we are able to find our voice, is by learning from the stories and the experiences of others, and so that's what I hope that we will be able to accomplish together as we go on this journey.

Speaker 1: 1:30

For today's episode, I want to talk a little bit about what my process, or what my journey, has been like, through finding my voice in the ways that exposure to a variety of people and experiences has helped me to find my voice. Some of these experiences that I will share with you have helped me to find my voice because it had given me the opportunity to own my voice, and then that has given me the ability to speak and find my voice and give voice to issues that are impacting other people. Voice and give voice to issues that are impacting other people. So I want to share a little bit today about my story as a young black man that was raised by a single mother who became a first generation college student. Just for those who may not be familiar with all of the jargon, I do have about 15 years of experience working in college and university setting, or higher education as we refer to it, and we use a lot of jargon, and one of those is first-generation college student, and simply a first-generation college student is a person. Actually, let me say this there are many definitions of a first generation college student. The one that I tend to use to sort of guide how I think about my own story and my own journey is that of someone who has a parent or guardian that did not complete a four year degree from a college or university, complete a four-year degree from a college or university. So in the fall of 2004, I became a first-generation college student.

Speaker 1: 3:33

Now I think it's important to say that I had to find my way and my beginning was somewhat of a challenge. So I scored an ACT of 17 when I took the ACT in high school and for a couple of reasons, notably because of some financial barriers, I started my college journey, my educational journey, at a community college, and so I don't knock small beginnings, I don't knock the idea that different individuals have different paths for accomplishing their goals and realizing their life's passion. So for me, as a Black man raised by a single mother of three kids, who was a first generation college student, scored a 17 or ACT, began his journey at a community college and then transferred to a four year institution where my very first semester GPA was a 2.2. Semester GPA was a 2.2. And one particular experience that really sticks out to me as I think about my journey is that my first week of class I was sitting in an English class. We were reviewing the syllabus and the professor got to the point where he began to talk about the assignments and I had done decently well as a high school student, but as I look back and think retrospectively, I probably didn't apply myself in the ways that I should have. Nonetheless, I find myself in this English class and professors like, hey, one of the uh primary assignments for this class is going to be to do an eight page paper. And when I tell you, uh, that shook me, uh it, it just um shook me in a in a completely different way that I didn't expect. Um, thinking about eight pages now doesn't seem that overwhelming, but then, at that point in my life, the idea of writing an eight page paper was just overwhelming, so much so that, as soon as the class was over, I went and dropped that course.

Speaker 1: 5:59

So I want to talk a little bit about my experience and some of the ways in which my. A little bit about my experience and some of the ways in which my, the things that I've experienced have allowed me to be more comfortable with owning my voice, to be more comfortable with sharing my own stories, even the parts of my stories that I have previously been ashamed of, and not just in this episode. But I hope that throughout our time together that I'll be able to show a little bit of vulnerability in this space and to share about some of those experiences that, in the moment, maybe create a shame, that maybe create an embarrassment, but, over the long term, have really allowed me to take ownership of my voice and of my story and, I would say, have given me the courage to be able to speak up and to give voice to some of the issues that really matter to me, but also to issues that matter to those that I care about. So that's how we'll spend our time today, and we'll just go ahead and jump right into it, so I'll share with you.

Speaker 1: 7:19

I started my college career as a first generation college student and, to be honest, I didn't really know what I was doing. I didn't know how to study, I didn't know how to navigate the college environment. I knew that I was in a place where I wanted to be and that, if I was able to figure things out, that I would eventually be successful.

Speaker 1: 7:42

But there was a lot that I didn't know and a lot that I needed to find out, and so, after participating, after struggling my first semester, I decided that hey, I'm going to need some additional help, and so, I became a part of a mentoring, a peer mentoring program on the campus, and got connected to the multicultural center at that campus and got connected to the multicultural center of that campus by all accounts, based on ACT, maybe even high school GPA would have been deemed as somebody who couldn't be successful in college I was able to find a point of connection and belonging at this multicultural center.

Speaker 1: 8:37

Now I could say today and sort of talk with some of this language that I have based on where I've been, but in the moment I wouldn't have been able to really articulate what it meant to be a black man and to be navigating this large campus environment that, for all intents and purposes, had not been designed with people like me and mine. But nonetheless I found this connection point and so, as a result of that connection, I began to attend this annual event that was hosted by a neighboring institution, and this event was designed to bring college students who identified as black men, to bring college professors, to bring staff who worked at the college, to bring in community partners, to bring in people around this idea of what does it look like to remove barriers for the success of Black men. At that particular time there was a lot going on, a lot of conversations about how do we remove barriers that lead to more successful outcomes for Black men in education and that was from, you know, elementary to middle school, to high school, to college level.

Speaker 1: 10:10

And so I began to. I found myself in this environment with black men who were, who had some of the same goals that I had had. Some of the same goals that I had. In some cases, I had an opportunity to interact with Black men who had PhDs and who were in pretty influential positions, not only at that university but also in the community. And because of a platform of this event, we were even able to interact with Black men who were, you know, successful in other industries business and healthcare and so it really for me began to shape sort of a different perspective of what it meant to be a black man, a black man for me. And so, as I would look forward to this event year after year and I saw the type of community and the, the just encouragement that this type of event provided to the individuals at this institution, at this institution, you know, I began to really just process who I was in different ways. Even still, then I wouldn't have been able to fully have the words and the language to talk about what that experience meant to me, the words and the language to talk about what that experience meant to me. I will say, though, that that experience really opened the door for me to really begin to think about other experiences that I had not been connected to before. So there's this idea that sometimes our willingness to be open enough to step beyond what we've known can sort of be the pathway or the door to other opportunities that will lead us to raising our awareness, to having a better understanding of who we are, to, you know, meeting and engagement with people that we probably wouldn't have engaged in. You know, there were so many Black men, specifically, that I still have some level of connection to whether it's just LinkedIn or Facebook that I was exposed to as a result of participating in this yearly event that wasn't even sponsored by my institution, and so that really began to plant the seed for me.

Speaker 1: 12:50

So, as I continued on in my college career and had an opportunity to do a few other things including walking onto the football team at the institution, including joining a historically Black fraternity and, you know, getting to experience life as a college student from that perspective and taking on leadership roles from, you know, being involved with the black student led organizational campus or the the campus chapter of the NAACP. You know, I began to explore these opportunities and these experiences that I had not even thought about before, which eventually led me to decide to participate in an internship program that really changed my life in more ways than I can count. So during my undergraduate career I changed my major a few times, started off as a sports and leisure studies, thought I wanted to be a sports agent and sort of travel the world and represent traditional athletes. Once I got started in that degree program, my interests began to change and thought perhaps it would be better for me to pursue a general business management degree, just to give me more options once I graduated from college, just to give me more options once I graduated from college. And then there was a moment in time where I felt like, hey, let me kind of get back to my love of cooking and this idea of being an entrepreneur, and I thought, hey, maybe I'll change my major to hospitality management and pursue, you know, becoming a professional chef. Well, before I got to the point that I did that, I decided to take this course, principles of Marketing, where I essentially just fell in love with this idea of marketing and the psychology and the business behind marketing. All that to say that I was a marketing major in the business. Behind marketing, all that to say that I was a marketing major, I was in my junior year, heading into my senior year Again at this time.

Speaker 1: 15:12

At that point I had, you know, been a member of the football team. I had been the president of my fraternity. I've been involved in a lot of different things on campus and so by this time, you know, I had gone from having a 2.2 GPA to, at my highest, getting a 3.8 GPA, and so I was doing really well, I felt really comfortable. And then I learned about this internship program and I was really not interested in participating. And I was really not interested in participating. Number one, I had kind of found my groove. I wasn't interested in trying to do anything that sort of would threaten the success that I had achieved and even just the level of influence I had been able to have on campus, just because of the things that I was doing outside of the classroom.

Speaker 1: 16:08

But someone who was a really great support in my life decided to really encourage me to pursue this opportunity. Talk to my mom about it, talk to some other folks that I was. That I would say at that time, probably were in a mentoring capacity for me, and they said, hey, you should really consider this opportunity. Now, mind you, I was a marketing major. This internship program had a specific focus on state government and politics, and so to me I didn't see the connection. I didn't see how participating in an internship focused on state government politics would have any influence on my desire to be a corporate marketing executive. There just wasn't a connection.

Speaker 1: 16:57

In addition to that, I was already at a point in my academic career that I had used up all of my well, not all, but a pretty decent amount of my electives, and so the program itself was a total of 15 credit hours. I had to, you know, I had to get to. I only had about six to nine hours left. That would go toward my hours left that would go toward my electives, and so I would have been wasting money taking courses that would not count toward my degree. It also happened to be beneficial that, in addition to myself, you know, applying for this internship, I also knew a couple of other of my fraternity brothers who had applied for it, and so it gave me some sort of sense of comfort that going away from this place that had become home, from this place that had become comfortable to me, me and going to a new city, while it wasn't, you know, far away, didn't have to go outside of the state, but I did have to go about two and a half hours away and sort of start life over in a way, you know, develop new relationships, navigate a new city, navigate a new environment. And so, after listening to those around me, I decided to go ahead and pursue this internship program.

Speaker 1: 18:35

Now it just turns out that, even though I wasn't at my home college or university, I did get access to a college campus. And having access to that college campus students program allowed me to still feel a sense of connection and feel like I was still sort of experiencing the college environment. As a result of participating in that program, I was able to really see, uh, in this setting, what community looked like for black college students who were trying to black male college students who were trying to pursue, you know, a degree and try to identify success for themselves. So, uh, long story short, I do the program, participate in the program, have a tremendous you know experience, able to, you know, just soak up so much knowledge from people in very influential positions in state, government and policy arenas and lobbying areas, and just to be involved in a program that helped me to expand my horizon and expand my understanding of the world around me. Expand my horizon and expand my understanding of the world around me. It was kind of like helping to connect the dots. I'll have to share more about what those dots were in another episode, but the experience literally changed my life. It also happened that while I was participating in that experience I can't talk about this story and not talk about this blessing While I was away studying and participating in this program, I was so fast forward I complete my bachelor's degree and then decide that perhaps it would be a good idea to pursue a master's degree experience.

Speaker 1: 21:05

I was able to go back to my home institution with about a semester left with my bachelor's, my bachelor's degree, and I came back with a completely different perspective, with a completely different um my my mind has shifted in a way that I didn't even know that it needed to shift. My eyes have been opened in ways that I didn't realize they needed to be open. And you know, prior to participating in this program, my mantra for going to college was always to just, you know graduate, for going to college was always to just, you know graduate, make as much money as I, could, become a you know, a corporate executive and just sort of live life, you know, and be able to contribute and take care specifically of my mother. And while all those things are still desires, what began to develop in me was a desire to reach back, was a desire to leave a sense of purpose at the place that had given me so much at that time my undergraduate institution and also to help create sort of the type of community that I had experienced in these different places from the Black male gathering that I'd experienced before I left the opportunity to engage with Black men who were committed to their academic success, with Black men who had completed their PhDs and were doing really great work, to key community leaders. I had a desire to sort of see the community in the sense of purpose that I had seen in other places where I was and that really drove me to to really want to do something that would last beyond my existence at that place place.

Speaker 1: 23:26

And so, once I decided to pursue my master's degree, I was able to continue and I decided to stay at the same institution that I was at, I was able to continue some of the work that had begun and decided that, hey, I was going to try to create some initiatives and some programming that I had seen other places at the institution that I was at, and so I was able to begin to build a program that had a specific focus on the academic, the professional and the career success of both Black and Latino men, and so my experience up to that point had really helped me to find my voice and to put sort of words to my own experience of trying to navigate a pretty large campus environment and being able to overcome some barriers that I brought with me to that, to that environment. And so, as a result of that, you know, I I found myself in spaces and in conversation with people and being able to have influence on, on, really to have influence on really key conversations. One specifically, once I finished my bachelor's degree and my master's degree, I decided I end up, you know, completing this project. So, as a result of all of the work that I had done, here I am.

Speaker 1: 25:00

I am at this national conference on a panel having a really what I would say a really important conversation about sort of the state of what it means to be a black man pursuing higher education man pursuing higher education. This national conference probably had about 3,000 to 4,000 people in attendance, and the specific session or the workshop that I was a part of, the room was standing room only, and so we're having a pretty engaging conversation about how can people who work on college and university campuses create better environments where Black men specifically, but also other men of color, latino men, native American or American Indian, indigenous men, etc. How can we create better environments to support the success and help this population of students overcome some of the barriers that exist in the institutions, because they're a reflection of the larger societal structures that create systems of inequity. And to say that I was excited, that I was proud to be in this space with some of the people who would have been considered leaders in sort of this space, it would have been an understatement, but I'll never forget the moment where I would say the courage and the bravery of this black woman really led to me even more so, developing an awareness to a population of individuals that I spent a lot of time with but I had not fully understood, or really and I'm ashamed to say this that at that point I hadn't really fully took the time to understand what their experience was like. So here we are in this room having this conversation and this one of the attendees who, based on my assumption of looking at her was probably a black woman who stands up and says hey, you know, this is a great conversation, I'm glad we're having this conversation, and she says however, I think it's also important that in the a lot of time to really think about what that meant.

Speaker 1: 28:07

I grew up in an environment where you know if, if there were any conversations about social issues that was happening around us and, to be honest, I don't necessarily remember a lot of that, those conversations coming up, but a lot of that, those conversations coming up, but a lot of it was centered around the experiences of Black men. It was experiences about around the people that I knew. I grew up going to Black barbershops and so, you know, when there was conversations that related to social issues, a lot of those conversations centered around Black men. When I watch BET and other TV shows, the conversations very much so focus on or elevated the experiences of Black men. And so here I am, sitting in this session and now I'm sort of struggling now to figure out what I do with this seed that really has been planted for me, and I remember spending a lot of time beyond that day just thinking about what she said and just thinking about the courage that it took to stand up in that space and to shed light on an issue that many in the space myself included had not been thinking about, and so that experience really started me to, on this path of exploration, to understand what was she trying, interrupt the conversation and say, hey, listen, this is an important conversation, but there's also some other important conversations important conversations At the time I was also.

Speaker 1: 30:21

I had been, I was in my career, had been in my career for several years, and I was in graduate school, working toward my PhD, and so I was already doing research and trying to figure out like, hey, what will my dissertation focus on? And between trying to figure out what my dissertation was focused on and trying to explore sort of this new information that I had that had sort of been laid out in front of me, I found myself really spent a lot of time researching this topic. Much so to. I found myself spending a lot of time on this topic and not as much time exploring the specific research topic that I had planned to pursue. And so one day, as I was on Twitter and I was doing research, I had started following more Black women who were giving voice to the specific experiences of Black women, and I came across this report that was published about the over-policing of young Black girls. The name of the report you can Google it, you'll find it it's called Black Girls Matter Pushed Out, over-policed and Under-Protected, and this report essentially details the harsh disciplinary practices that Black girls often experience and the ways in which Black girls are often pushed out of the K-12 system because of zero tolerance policies, the K through 12 system, because of zero tolerance policies.

Speaker 1: 32:26

Now, again, because of the way that I've sort of entered into my collegiate experience and I looked and studied some of this stuff, I knew a lot about the experiences of Black men, but it wasn't until 2016, 2015, 2016, that I had really began to explore it or at least begin to ask the question well, what does life look like for a black woman in the US? What does life look like for a black woman who is black and has to deal with racism and all of the things that come with racism and also deal with being a woman and having to navigate what it means to be a woman in different settings and then to think what does it mean to be both? What does it mean to have to navigate environments and understand how to move and trying to gain as much knowledge as I possibly could? One of the books that I came across early on is a book called Sister Citizen. It's sitting right back here. It's a book by Melissa Harris Perry, and I won't even do it just to try to explain what the book is about. But the book itself outlines sort of what in a pretty compelling way what it's like for Black women to have to navigate the world as members of two different, distinct identities. And so the more I read, the more I learned, the more responsibility that I felt to do something.

Speaker 1: 34:35

Now, I'll remind you earlier I said that this was a population of people that I had been around all my life. My mother, she's a black woman. She raised me as a single parent. I have an older sister who identifies as a black woman. She's seven years older than me and in a lot of ways she is sort of a second mother, and she invested so much in me. I understand a lot more now of what that investment was and in terms of my taste in music and my love for reading.

Speaker 1: 35:15

And then at that point I had been married to a black woman for six years. That point, I had been married to a Black woman for six years. And so here I am trying to figure out, with this sort of new awareness, what do I do, what is my responsibility? And that's a lot of information, it's a lot of background, but I think it's very relevant to where we find ourselves in the current context. And what I'll say is that it was through me finding out who I was and having a better understanding of my identity and what it meant to have to navigate these various environments, that I began to be able to look and see and explore the experiences of another population of people, in this case, black women. Ownership enough ownership of my own story to be able to to sort of enter into somebody else's story and try to be empathetic and and, in a lot of ways, to be an advocate and an ally.

Speaker 1: 36:30

And so since then, a lot of my work from a research perspective. So I went ahead and finished my PhD perspective. So I went ahead and finished my PhD. Even that process itself was was interesting, but I finished my PhD and, because of this sense of responsibility to be an advocate, to be an ally, to give voice from a male's perspective of what the impact of racism and gender has on the experiences of Black women and other women of color, I decided to research the experiences of Black women college students who were involved in predominantly white student organizations, predominantly white student organizations.

Speaker 1: 37:23

And so, to this point, you know, I've while I still have more to learn and more ways to grow I've been able to find a sense of courage and being able to speak and use my privilege and identity as a man to say hey, this is something we need to pay attention to. And so it brings me to today because, as we know, we are in the middle of an election cycle, of an election cycle I wanna say it's less than 20 days until the presidential election, but I don't wanna dismiss the fact that there are also local and state level elections that we also need to pay attention to, that we also need to educate ourselves on, so that we know or so that we can exercise our right to vote, and in a responsible way. So I said all that to say that you know. Number one, or really I'll say the main focus, is that, hey, two things can be true at the same time. Two things can be true at the same time.

Speaker 1: 38:45

So earlier this week there was a lot of pushback from a lot of folks in the Black community and beyond in regards to what the former president, barack Obama, had to say about Black men and about black men specifically supporting Vice President Kamala Harris in her candidacy as the next president of the United States. I'm going to play the audio just so you can have some context to this, all right. All right, so here is what. Here's the audio from the recent comments from former President Barack Obama that garnered some criticism.

Speaker 2: 39:33

Thank, you, thank you and do more and overcome.

Speaker 1: 41:11

I'm just going to play this again, just in case we didn't get this on the first time that achieves. Here are the comments of former President Barack Obama and his commentary to, in this case, this role of what looks like mostly black men and what he feels sort of might be the reason why there isn't the same support for Vice President Harris, senator Curry.

Speaker 2: 41:45

I'm going to go ahead and just say speak some truths, if you don't mind, please, because my understanding, based on reports I'm getting from campaigns and communities, that we have not yet seen the same kinds of energy and turnout in all quarters of our neighborhoods and communities as we saw when I was running.

Speaker 2: 42:21

Now I also want to say that that seems to be more pronounced with the brothers. So, if you don't mind, just for a second, I'm going to speak to you all directly and say that when you have a choice, that is this clear choice. That is this clear when, on the one hand, you have somebody who grew up like you, knows you went to college with you, understands the struggles and pain and joy that comes from those experiences. He was able to work harder and do more and overcome and achieves the second highest office in the land and is putting forward concrete proposals to directly address the things that are vital in our neighborhoods and our communities, from housing to making sure that our mothers and our fathers and our grandparents can afford medicine and making sure that we are dealing with prices that are too high and rents that are too high and are committed to is committed to making sure that we maintain the Affordable Care Act.

Speaker 2: 44:09

So everybody's got help here and cares about things like education and entrepreneurship in our neighborhoods and that's on one side and on the other side you have someone who has consistently shown disregard, not just for the communities but for you as a person, and you're thinking about sitting down I'm not, but you know, becauseousin Pookie might be anybody's Pookie and you're coming up with all kinds of reasons and excuses. I've got a problem with that Because part of it makes me think and I'm speaking to men directly part of it makes me think that, well, you just aren't feeling the idea of having a woman as president and you're coming up with other, or even supporting somebody who has a history of denigrating you because you think that's a sign of strength, because that's what being a man is Putting women down. That's not acceptable. That's not it. This shouldn't even be a question.

Speaker 1: 46:01

There you have it. So those are the comments that has garnered so much lots of criticism by a lot of different people, folks who I know that I've seen sort of commentary about what President Obama said. Former Ohio Senator, senator Anita Turner, stephen A Smith who, if you have well, even if you don't watch sports you've probably heard that name One of my favorite actors, wendell Pierce. He even talked about some of the conversations that he's had with black men on his barbershop talk tour. And another podcast that I listened to, the Church Politics Podcast with Justin Giboney and Reverend Chris Butler. They talked as well about this. What a lot of people are calling a lecture to black Chris Butler, they talked as well about this. That's what a lot of people are calling a lecture to black men, and I want to say that at this age and this space of my life, I'm a firm believer in that.

Speaker 1: 47:20

Two things can be true, all right. So on the one hand, there there's a there's a lot that can be said about the approach, for instance, that President Obama took to having this engaged with this group of people prior to what we see on camera. So I can't speak to any of that again, but I will say that two things can be true at the same time. So we can say that maybe the approach or perhaps the tone or the public nature of President Obama's comments could have been different or, you know, he could have went about a different way to communicate this message, and that's a fair assessment, that's a fair critique. However, there is also an element of truth to what President Obama is speaking to, even if how he, which means that if we have spent any significant amount of time in the United States and educational institutions and its corporations and its communities, we know that racism is a real life experience and encounter for so many Black folks, latino folks, indigenous folks, asian Pacific Islander folks, and so we will look, we will give a side out to anyone who had the, as some people say, the unmitigated gall to tell us that racism did not exist.

Speaker 1: 49:36

In the same way, if we talk to enough women, white women, black women, asian American women, asian Pacific Islander women, latino women, asian American women, asian Pacific Islander women, latino women and we heard about their experiences with sexism, we would be completely we would look at somebody you know crazy if they said, hey, you know, sexism doesn't exist, or and so it's the same way, like if, as a black man, if I've been socialized, if I've been sort of told like this is how, whether it's directly or through media, through cultural norms, that the hey, this is how I interact with, this is how I should respond to women, specifically women in leadership roles, women with authority. We cannot argue with the fact that some of us he didn't say all Black men or all men are sexist or participate in sexism, but he said that some of us, who are coming up with all types of reasons and I've heard so many reasons that you know again, this conversation isn't about trying to defend President Obama. It's not even about trying to promote Vice President Harris as a candidate although we can have that conversation another day but it is about the reality that two things can be true at the same time that perhaps President Obama could have taken a different approach to this conversation. And also there are some of us, even Black men and other men who are married to Black women, who operate in ways that would be considered to be sexist, like we can't assume that just because you were raised by black women or you have relatives or close friends and families of people who identify as black women, that we are somehow exempt from being sexist like that isn't how it works. In the same way that a you know someone who is, who identifies as white, would say well, I have several black friends, so that doesn't that makes me not a racist.

Speaker 1: 52:34

Because he made sort of this assertion that black men could possibly be sexist and that sexism could be a reason why we're not voting for this black woman. And that's a very real possibility. It just is. And you know it's hard to fathom. When you look at you know if we're talking about making the decision between the candidates that are part of the two primary political parties. When you look at resume on paper, she Vice President Harris is more qualified. When you look at her path to the presidency having served as a vice president, having served as a senator, having served as a attorney general, as a state prosecutor like how more qualified could you get? And I don't know about you, but I've spent enough time around enough Black women and I know the saying working twice as hard to be just as good, having to be overqualified to be considered as a viable candidate, and we're seeing it play out in very in real time here.

Speaker 1: 54:00

So to say that none of what President Barack Obama said is factual. It's just, you know, it sort of makes the point even more that perhaps that some of the reason why and notice that he, he, he was talking. He also said men, men. There are some men who had a problem with voting for then candidate Hillary Clinton because she was a woman. And we just have to take ownership of the fact that, yes, we could be married to women. Yes, we could be married to black women, yes, we could have close friendships and close relationships with people who identify differently, with people who identify differently. But we cannot. We cannot say that because we share the same racial and ethnic identity with someone does not mean that we will not treat them differently or discriminate against them because of some other aspect of their identity, against them because of some other aspect of their identity. Just ask those who identify as Black and also a part of the LGBTQ plus community Right. So Blackness alone does not exempt you from being sexist. It does not exempt you from being homophobic. It does not even exempt you from being xenophobic, because we're seeing that play out in lots of ways on one side of the candidacy when it comes to commentary around Haitian immigrants.

Speaker 1: 55:41

So I think there has to be a realization that, yes, two things can be true at the same time. Yes, president Obama could have communicated his thoughts perhaps differently or in a different platform. And also there are some of us who have a really hard time voting for a woman, specifically a Black woman. I mean, we have people questioning the Blackness of a candidate who not only has had to navigate this country with melanin right that's had to navigate these elite educational institutions and these structures that oftentimes puts up as many barriers as it can to prevent people who look like her, male and female, from ascending to these roles.

Speaker 1: 56:49

But when you talk about somebody who went to a historically Black college and university right, a historically Black college and university, and yet we're questioning the Blackness of this candidate, somebody who is a member, who became a member over 30 years ago, of a historically Black sorority, and yet the conversation happening on both sides of the major political parties is that this candidate isn't Black enough, that this candidate isn't black enough, that this candidate isn't genuine. Well, how many of you all talk the same way at work that you talk when you're kicking it with your homegirls or your homeboys? It's called code switching and for many of us it's a survival tactic and for many of us it's a survival tactic. So, if we can make excuses for reasons why this candidate isn't fit for the job, and you start looking at experience, you start looking at pedigree, you start looking at overall intelligence, and if you can't see any explanation there, then you can only come to one or really one other conclusion. That perhaps, well, two conclusions, but perhaps people are struggling with this idea of voting and electing a black woman to be the next president of this country. Now, obviously, in this short time frame we don't have In this episode, I'm not going to get into all of the policies and the things that make this make Vice President Harris a better candidate, but I will say this that even if you, you know in your heart of hearts, you feel like you can't go to the polls and you can't vote for Vice President Harris or you can't support the Democratic Party, which is your right as an educated voter, as someone who has a right to vote, they're conscious.

Speaker 1: 59:16

I want to just elevate the fact that there are other options. So, if you don't want to vote for Vice President Harris which again, we can talk about what that means but there are viable option for the president of the United States when there are other options on the table. So, if you can't bring yourself you feel like you can't vote for President Harris or Vice President Harris that perhaps you should consider some of the independent candidates that will be on the ballot. That will be on the ballot and maybe in a different episode, we could talk about who those candidates are. But, folks, two things can be true at the same time, and that is so in the case of the comments from former President Barack Obama, but also in the case of my own personal journey finding a sense of voice in my story as a Black man, and then going forward and being able to create spaces and programs that support the uplifting, the growth, the development, the success of black men. Um, one of the initiatives that I uh co-founded, uh, in 2011, is still in existence today. Uh, another initiative that I founded for, uh, black men uh, about six or seven years ago, it's still in existence today.

Speaker 1: 1:01:32

And, in addition to that, I have given my voice to the very real experiences of Black women who are navigating this country, navigating educational environments, navigating workplaces, navigating corporations, navigating communities and trying to live their best life while experiencing racism and sexism, and they're not experiencing them. You know you're not experiencing racism here and sexism there. They're experiencing them at the very same time. And so two things can be true, and we have to. In order for us to find our voice, in order for us to find courage in our own story, we first have to begin with taking a stock of who we are, but that doesn't have to be the end of the road. We can make room for the stories and the experiences of other people as we continue to find courage and to find our own voice.

Speaker 1: 1:02:49

So thank you so much for joining me in this first episode of Bruh Speak Up. I am your host, demetrius Jaggers. It's been a pleasure to spend time with you and remember, this podcast is a podcast for everyday people trying to find their voice among all the noise. A podcast for people who are tired of being silent about the issues that matter to them. Identify differently as you have conversations and be open to hearing. Not listening just to respond, but be open to listening, to hear their stories and to see how you can make space for their stories as you continue your journey. Appreciate y'all until next time, peace.